does anyone buy records anymore?

[prime mover dnb]

just curious how many djs buy records vs. mp3's and cd's.. ?

i buy records as often as i can..
and use serato & final scratch for dubz..

[nawenipwod]

I only buy & play records. I am in the minority, I realize. I'm a bit of a purist, and I'm not very impressed by digital sound at or below the 44.1k, 16-bit standard. I know I limit my track selection, but still I have more than enough records to keep things interesting for myself (and play for several hours without repeating anything).

FWIW I am a hobbyist and not a pro. If I relied on DJing for income I don't think I'd have much choice in the matter, I'd have to do whatever is necessary to survive in the industry.

[kINEkT]

I only buy & play records. I am in the minority, I realize. I'm a bit of a purist, and I'm not very impressed by digital sound at or below the 44.1k, 16-bit standard. I know I limit my track selection, but still I have more than enough records to keep things interesting for myself (and play for several hours without repeating anything).

FWIW I am a hobbyist and not a pro. If I relied on DJing for income I don't think I'd have much choice in the matter, I'd have to do whatever is necessary to survive in the industry.

999 out of 1000 people can not tell the difference between a vinyl and an mp3 when you are pumping 10,000 watts in their face. Of course, you need to purchase 320kbps high quality files from web shops. In fact, vinyl sounds worse to me, and many others, because they are missing highs & some mid range frequency. Add on to the fact that records played a lot will lose substantial quality over time too. I own about 30 vinyls that came out before their digital counterpart, and I prefer to play the digital because my ears like to hear the full range of sounds from lows to highs. I want to hear it how the PRODUCER intended.

One more thing. The only way a vinyl could surpass a digital file in quailty is if the producer uses ONLY analog equipment. It's just impossible for a song composed 100% digitally to sound better on a vinyl than in digital format. Last I checked, 99% of producers in this day in age are using software. So the only way this argument holds any merit is if the producer is 100% analog.

Vinyl is nostaligic, nothing more. With that said, I use serato cause I love the feel of vinyl control, but every impractical factor outweights this nostalgic feeling. High cost, low quality, degrading medium, and extremely heavy and space consuming in bulk. Add on to the fact that I can loop, edit, cut, mash, and remix every song I play puts me 1 step ahead of any vinyl dj.

[JPaul]

Wow good post. I'm purely a MP3 man, 320kps all day. I couldn't justify paying a ton of money for records.

[nawenipwod]

999 out of 1000 people can not tell the difference between a vinyl and an mp3 when you are pumping 10,000 watts in their face.


I'm that one guy, and it bothers the hell out of me I have to admit. If it doesn't sound good to me, I don't want to play it. I don't care if 999/1000 people are fooled. I'm also the kind of guy who is almost never dancing. I'm a head, I am dissecting the music. I listen with a much more critical ear than most.

I want to hear it how the PRODUCER intended.

Maybe it's just me, but I think when someone bothers to put a release out on vinyl, they know what it's going to sound like, and they know that the record will wear over time and that DJs will still play it as it ages. They are anticipating all of this. So I don't see how playing vinyl is any less true to the producer's vision of the track. The producer knows what will happen and in some cases may consider the effects of vinyl degradation desirable. Personally I like the sound of a somewhat aged vinyl record better than a brand new one, in most cases.


One more thing. The only way a vinyl could surpass a digital file in quailty is if the producer uses ONLY analog equipment. It's just impossible for a song composed 100% digitally to sound better on a vinyl than in digital format. Last I checked, 99% of producers in this day in age are using software. So the only way this argument holds any merit is if the producer is 100% analog.


This is completely untrue. A CD or Mp3 is a linear collection of data points that need to be drawn together by a computer. When you alter the tempo/pitch of a digital file you (at least I) can hear this sampling rate change speed with the music (and it annoys the hell out of me, ruins the vibe). A record is a continuous groove that needs no such middle man to connect the dots. Whether it started out digital is not the point, once it is pressed into vinyl it is analog. When you slow down or speed up vinyl, the sound source remains one continuous groove.


Vinyl is nostaligic, nothing more. With that said, I use serato cause I love the feel of vinyl control, but every impractical factor outweights this nostalgic feeling. High cost, low quality, degrading medium, and extremely heavy and space consuming in bulk. Add on to the fact that I can loop, edit, cut, mash, and remix every song I play puts me 1 step ahead of any vinyl dj.


I don't know what to say about "nostalgia", because I am one of the most unsentimental people on the planet. Maybe I'm more old school than I give myself credit for.

It's interesting that you put an emphasis on your ability to "loop, edit, cut, mash, and remix", but you are also concerned with presenting the tracks "as the PRODUCER intended". I personally find it really annoying when a DJ heavily re-edits a track real-time, because usually it obliterates all sense of what the original track(s) are supposed to sound like. Most DJs aren't nearly as clever with these novel devices as they think they are, anyway -- the re-editing usually makes it sound worse IMO, unless UR Richie Hawtin or someone of that ilk (and even he is far from perfect).

I'm glad you think your dedication to digital puts you "1 step ahead" of me. But to be honest I'm not trying to "compete" with you or anyone else. Like I said, if I was a pro I'd do things totally different. Like in any profession, I'd have to do what the marketplace dictated. But I do this for fun, so I play the tracks I want to play on the medium I like. If people don't like it or aren't impressed, I don't care.

Lastly, I have to say VINYL HAS WORKED FINE FOR 30 YEARS. We'd probably have very little of what we have, musically, without it. It is pretty silly to hate on it IMO.

[kINEkT]

Valid points. I still think a digital file is indistinguishable to the common ear and the whole point of dj'ing is to make people dance. I respect your opinion of being such an extreme audiophile but that is not what DJ'ing is about. I spent hours testing a pressed vinyl vs 320/wav digital files as well as vinyl recorded to digital and played back and the only thing I can tell is that the vinyl has less high range frequency. Explain it in as much technical terms as you like, but what the common ear hears is all that matters. Also, what I meant by hearing what the producer intended is that I mean they want you to hear those full highs & mids. I was not talking about arrangement. In case you haven't been to a big show in the last 3-4 years, 95% of big name dj's & producers are mixing with CD's on stage, not vinyl. Straight from the studio to .wav format on a CD will always sound better than a vinyl.

The fact remains you're availability of releases on vinyl will continue to dwindle until there are none. I'd rather spot $2 for a song than $12 + $5 shipping per song. Support it as long as you want but simple economics tells me it won't be but another 5 years before most everyone jumps ship.

Anytime I think of DJ'ing I think in a context meant to serve up beats for people, not my own reasons. If you are DJ'ing for yourself only that makes no sense to me.

None of this is hating on vinyl, it's an argument of why it is impractical and there is no benefit. I do own vinyls because they don't release digital so I have about 25 of them in my record bag when I play live.

[VJA52]

I have both. I prefer to play vinyl cause it feels natural. Kinda of like playing an acoustic guitar vs. a keyboard. Most cd,mp3 players, the work is done for you. I think it takes more know how to use a technic 1200. Even more if it's belt driven. lol.

But, I also like that I can buy songs very easy from all the sources for like 99 cents to 2.50. That helps keep me up to date better. And buying records is not cheap. 12.99 avg for imports with 2 songs? One you may never play?

Cd sounds crisp to me. Very clean. Vinyl sounds dirty and rough. I like both.

Although, I am not spinning much anymore cause doing video is an even more expensive hobby.

[Black Cat]

Wow, the "digital vs. vinyl" debate again.
Technology is catching up with vinyl to emulate the aesthetics of spinning on a platter. With interfaces like Serato and turntables like the Technics SLZ-1200 it won't be long until digital will be the preferred media.

There's so much I can say on this subject as an audiophile and producer but it's all been said.

The bottom line is this:
The only thing that truly matters is how it sounds in front of the booth.

[Ryan]

Evolve or Die.

[kINEkT]

The mainstream house & trance genres are pretty much digital exclusive these days. I've been doing some basic research and there are only a very few genres, which are mostly underground, that are strictly vinyl still. Commercial house/trance is over 90% digital whereas most standard EDM (techno, drum n bass, hardstyle) hovers around 40-50%. Schranz techno is 95% vinyl along with some other genres.

I spin both cause I buy the song I absolutely must have and sometimes it is still on wax. One day I hope I won't have to! I just spent $110 for 6 records whereas I could of bought around 45-50 songs in digital.

[Mr. Bastian]

Evolve or Die.

Have you ever touched a record? :eviltongue: hehe

[TwoFish]

i buy vinyl. i use vinyl. switching over to all those programs will cost too much at this point in time. plus a lot of the dubstep that's released right now is vinyl only.

[rizednb]

i buy vinyl would never switch..ive been addicted to it ever since i started spinning........i think you get more true sound from it anyways

[keith - SuPeR K!]

i don't even know how to turn a CDJ on... ryan tried to show me a bunch of times.

vinyl

[Ryan]

i don't even know how to turn a CDJ on... ryan tried to show me a bunch of times.

vinyl
haha but not when you were sober. ;-)

[kINEkT]

i don't even know how to turn a CDJ on... ryan tried to show me a bunch of times.

vinyl

What about the newest releases though? I think there are over 15 digital hhc releases per 1 vinyl now. Its an absurd amount. Digital is huge now for uk hardcore dj's


Anyways I recently bought even more vinyl... basically I want the music I want NOW on whatever format its on.

[sleepee]

i fart out vinyl.. = )

[hippiekid]

Digital.. Using Serato and FS hands down.. I myself own a huge collection of Vinyl , and i have plans to record them at high quality and throw them on my external..There is so much out there that you cant buy on Vinyl , and Vinyl over time gets worn out , and just sounds like crap..
And like Kevin Said playing on a good sound system , no one can tell the differnece.. Actually Digital in most cases sounds alot cleaner
Another bonus is the factor of having hours on hours of music on an external that can fit in your pocket.. No more carrying lbs of records in bulky cases - Though i do like playing vinyl in my home.. I usually bring a stack with me to a party incase there are equiptment issues , but the downfall there is i havent bought a new piece of 12 " in over 2 yrs , so all my vinyl would now be considered old or some classics..

[stasis-AA]

to the dude who said he can tell whether its a cd or a vinyl being played through a club system, i call complete and utter bullshit, ill bet you a twentyspot you cant do it consistently

[hippiekid]

to the dude who said he can tell whether its a cd or a vinyl being played through a club system, i call complete and utter bullshit, ill bet you a twentyspot you cant do it consistently

I can usually tell if a dj is mixing cd or vinyl based on the crackling of vinyl vs cd.. And also depending on the dj - cd mixing is alot different than vinyl.. But there are alot of times i cant tell the difference if the dj is a god one.. And lately sad enough all i have seen is a bunch of shitty dj's that seem to get booked all the time..

[fxbuddaman]

I used to be a vinyl purist but recently have been playing more and more on serato. The main reasons convenience, economics, and availability. However a brand new prestine perfectly pressed hi quality record will almost always sound better than its digital counterpart. The reason being is scientific actually. When you press a record, the sound as utterly embedded onto the physical medium ie the record. Thats why you can hear it even when the turntable is not connected to an amp. From the moment that sound is picked up by the needle transfered to the tonearm and sent to the mixer it is a pure unadultered sound true in every facet until it is amplified. However it being an imperfect medium is subject to wear and sound quality will inevitably degrade. From a distributers standpoint however, the days of vinyl are limited due to simple economics. The cost to press and distribute records are way higher than that of its digital counterpart which are practically none. So enjoy your records while you can its only a matter of time before they are collectors items unfortunately...

[Tommy Danger]

I used to buy vinyl until a buddy of mine and I discovered a guy selling 1000 new and old house records for 38 cents a pop...

Now I have so many I'm officially sick of them.

My buddy and I are switching to CDJs man there's just too much space taken up in our houses now....

[Ryan]

I used to be a vinyl purist but recently have been playing more and more on serato. The main reasons convenience, economics, and availability. However a brand new prestine perfectly pressed hi quality record will almost always sound better than its digital counterpart. The reason being is scientific actually. When you press a record, the sound as utterly embedded onto the physical medium ie the record. Thats why you can hear it even when the turntable is not connected to an amp. From the moment that sound is picked up by the needle transfered to the tonearm and sent to the mixer it is a pure unadultered sound true in every facet until it is amplified. However it being an imperfect medium is subject to wear and sound quality will inevitably degrade. From a distributers standpoint however, the days of vinyl are limited due to simple economics. The cost to press and distribute records are way higher than that of its digital counterpart which are practically none. So enjoy your records while you can its only a matter of time before they are collectors items unfortunately...
I'm gonna call BS on the sounding better on vinyl than digital because of "Science". To say this is so, you would have to find me an electronic music producer who is doing all his recording on analog with all live hardware and no digital conversion ANYWHERE.

Tracks are done digitally. They get sent to the record labels as HQ mp3s or WAV files. No matter how you slice it, cutting that on to vinyl involves a conversion process. And, as anyone knows, going digital to analog ALWAYS has signal loss. When you distribute digitally, that music is going out unaltered just as it was rendered on the producers computer.

[Detn8or]

this is true... the definition of analog recordings is..

Analog (or analogue) recording (Greek, ana is "according to" and logos "relationship") is a technique used to store signals of audio or video information for later playback.

Analog recording methods store audio signals as a continual wave in or on the media. The wave might be stored as a physical texture on a phonograph record, or a fluctuation in the field strength of a magnetic recording. This is different from digital recording, which converts audio signals into discrete numbers.


In fact after reading this, I wonder if any electronic music is analog, I know there are analog synths but that would be just a component, you still ultimatly finish it in a digital program, even in the early 90s.

but then again I do understand what Budda is talkin about, spinnin on vinyl from day one I get what he is saying.. although it is made digitally, Vinyl does have a warmer, smoother sound. Cds are more clear and crisp, and has better sound quality technically, but vinyl kind of takes those sharp corners off the sound, rounds them off a bit... if that makes any sense??

[Jaye..Ruue]

depends on what you are talking about....

It is a nominal loss on proper equipment. And most of the frequencies are removed not lost. They are either inaudible to the human ear, tiring on the ears, or taking up needed space in the waveform.

There are just some things that can not be re-created in a computer. ..yet.

I'm all for everything!!


I'm gonna call BS on the sounding better on vinyl than digital because of "Science". To say this is so, you would have to find me an electronic music producer who is doing all his recording on analog with all live hardware and no digital conversion ANYWHERE.

Tracks are done digitally. They get sent to the record labels as HQ mp3s or WAV files. No matter how you slice it, cutting that on to vinyl involves a conversion process. And, as anyone knows, going digital to analog ALWAYS has signal loss. When you distribute digitally, that music is going out unaltered just as it was rendered on the producers computer.

[TNess]

we all love vinyl but the point is...

evolve or die!

[fxbuddaman]

I'm gonna call BS on the sounding better on vinyl than digital because of "Science". To say this is so, you would have to find me an electronic music producer who is doing all his recording on analog with all live hardware and no digital conversion ANYWHERE.



Brian Zentz aka Barada. Dont know if he is still 100% analog but up until 2004 i know he was. Of course when you send a track out you're gonna convert it to a digital format which yes will entail signal loss, but after the record itself is pressed sound from that record is indeed a 100% analog signal. Nowhere in the tonearm, mixer, or amp are there 1's and 0's being converted. True high quality digital output formats such as 320 MP3's and WAV's sound very good and most wont be able to "hear" the difference. But the point I was trying to make is that since digital formats do entail coding, it is limited whether audible or not.